City Business Church

It is not by grace that one enters the kingdom of heaven, but by tithing. - Damazio 3:16

Location: Washington DC, United States

Friday, January 27, 2006


Catalyst has a friend visiting from out of town this week, and thus Catalyst is dragging just a little bit this morning. He's not exactly his old perky self. (For some reason, I really enjoy writing in the "third" person). Anyway, there were a bunch of emails I was going to post this morning, but that's just going to have to wait until this headache wears off. So for now, let me share a blog I just recently found. It is called Dooce and is written by an ex-Mormon. The blog itself is pretty good, but her biography is fantastic. Here's a snippet: My parents raised me Mormon, and I grew up believing that the Mormon Church was true. In fact, I never had a cup of coffee until I was 23-years-old. I had pre-marital sex for the first time at age 22, but BY GOD I waited an extra year for the coffee. There had better be a special place in heaven for me. I attended BYU from 1993-1997 and graduated with a degree in English. I firmly believe that BYU is the most horrible place on Earth, worse even than Disneyland. The one skill I learned in college that serves me well now is not how to solve differential equations or how to write a paper deconstructing “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock,” it’s how to distrust organized religion. I am no longer a practicing Mormon or someone who believes that Rush Limbaugh speaks to God. My family is understandably disappointed. The more I distance myself from City Bible Church, the more I find I identify with ex-Mormons.


Anonymous Brian K said...

I love dooce, it's right up there with my other fav. For some reason I find both blogs strangely reassuring.

Good luck with the hangover. Two pitchers of mimosas worked for me last Sunday.

1/27/2006 08:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

catalyst says: The more I distance myself from City Bible Church, the more I find I identify with ex-Mormons.

That would make sense. The less you identify with city bible,the more you embrace mormonism

1/27/2006 02:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's a nice way of twisting his words.

You must relate with CBC.

1/27/2006 03:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If your saying that i relate with cbc because im not a mormon than yes thats true

1/27/2006 04:37:00 PM  
Blogger JiminyCricket81 said...

Dooce is hilarious. She's really quite a writer! Thanks for sharing it!

I'm with you about the ex-Mormons. And just to clarify for watching eyes, this is why:

Like CBC, the LDS church involves itself in every aspect of the congregants' life....did you read the part of the blog where she didn't drink coffee until 23? It's not just theologically strict, it's socially all-consuming. The official word from the top is that it's no problem to have connections outside the church, but in the practical world, there's no time or purpose for that. The church is in everything you do, your *real* friends and family are there, and it's the best thing there is, right? And, to their credit, the Mormons take good care of their long as their own follow the rules.

But, if something goes wrong, if your Mormon husband beats you or your daughter has severe disabilities that make it impossible for her to go to church, if your son tells you he's gay.....and if you choose to do the human thing in any of these situations (leave your husband, take care of your daughter, embrace your son)...then you're in big trouble. There's no room for that kind of non-conformity, because "God is good, all the time", right? Sounding familiar yet?

It goes very deep, and the people who choose to leave stand to lose a lot that they know, both internally and externally...but the flip side of that is that they also stand to gain a lot that they don't know. It's the fear of the unknown, the fear of that loss that keeps people in those kinds of situations. And, if what's happening on the inside of the congregation isn't bad enough for you (or isn't bad for you at all), why would you think leaving was ever a good idea?

It makes perfect sense....they've made it much more comfortable to stay than to leave for the "normal" majority of their numbers continue to grow. It's just the people whose lives don't go like they're supposed to who get screwed by the church, screwed in the process of leaving the church, and have to fight like everyone else to avoid being screwed by the world outside once they get there. It's harsh and cynical, but my own experience and the experiences of ex-CBCers and ex-Mormons close to me tells me it's true.

1/28/2006 02:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JiminyCricket81 said...

It's harsh and cynical, but my own experience and the experiences of ex-CBCers and ex-Mormons close to me tells me it's true

What is your persoanal experience of cbc and other churches . Just so you know i work with 6 mormans mormans .One of them being my sup.Ive read a lot of books on mormonism includiong the history of Joseph Smith who let me tell you,has an interested heritage.none like that of the normal christan churches today. My grandfather is a baptist pastor ,uncle a pastor , and I have about 6 cousins who are missionaries in africa and ireland.ive been to many different denominations of churches and have never found one as amazing as cbc.Keep in mind that no church is perfect but a church is a family of believers who help each other in good and bad times and Ive developed about 30+ friendships from cbc. Anbd being a family ,sometimes you have fights or disagree but thats life.Its the strong people who get over it and move on . I know I have had plenty of fights with my family but we always work it out. My sister in law hasnt talked to her dad in years and hates her sisters because she hasnt let go of past offenses and thats what its like for a lot of the anti cbc bloggers.Some people have gotten past rheir issues and moved on to become awsome people,and some unfortunatly have not.It takes a special kind of person to let go of an offense and be the bigger person but for those of you do that,God bless you

1/28/2006 09:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Henri The Great said...

Anonymous wrote:

>> Some people have gotten past rheir issues and moved on to
>> become awsome people,and some unfortunatly have not.It takes a
>> special kind of person to let go of an offense and be the bigger
>> person but for those of you do that,God bless you

I think most of us who enjoy this blog have "gotten past our issues and moved on"...

.. but "letting go of an offense" doesn't mean we are now forbidden from enjoying the occasional (or frequent, in some cases) slam of the CBC.


1/28/2006 10:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You might have let go but you cant speak for everyone.There may be a lot of people who still hold on to their issues. Im not posting comments because I think its forbidden to post against cbc. It just interesting to me that while someone is posting about how bad pastor Frank is or how cbc did this or that, you have 100's of people like me who opened their homes for people to sleep and got up at 6 am to take them to generation unleashed only to pick them up at 11:30 at night all because we love our church body(which includes cbc and the church in canada which 2 of the guys were from and the church in korea in which the other 2 were from) and we are motivated by pastor Frank. And when you wake up on saturday and read the card they leave thanking you over and over for your kindness ,you cant help but feel moved and realize what a great church we have that people can give so much and ask nothing in return.And when the person who was addicited to drugs can find a place that has finally broken that addiction and filled it with Gods love and can finally go back to being a mom and a wife you cant help but feel something when a person posts something negative about Christs bride,the church.God bless pastor Frank and God bless cbc

1/28/2006 11:16:00 AM  
Blogger KK said...

With regards to this comment by anon 11:57, "Its the strong people who get over it and move on."

I've always felt like I was the stronger one for sucking it up and getting out of a church environment that I felt was detrimental to who I am. It takes a lot of guts to leave a group--sometimes it takes more strength to leave a group than it does to stay and try to work it out.


1/28/2006 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger JiminyCricket81 said...

Anonymous who asked:

It's not for me to personally defend my experiences of church to you publicly on this blog. If you want to know my story, please ask me privately via email (check my profile). However, I will say that I feel what you're saying is unfair to me and a lot of other people. You've had an experience at CBC that you feel has been good, and I'm glad for you. That in no way negates the fact that other people have had deal-breaking and heart-breaking bad experiences. It's not reasonable to impose your perceptions and experiences onto other people in order to evaluate their behavior...that's not just apples and oranges, it's apples and station wagons.

1/28/2006 03:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I never said that my whole experience has been good and i have mentioned before that churches are not perfect. What Im saying is that churches have humans that are leaders and that means your going to have imperfection.Its the attitude of the people of the church that make it what it is. If the church body decided that they were going to be participators and not just spectators and help those in need and help build freindships and put aside offenses no matter how big or small, you would have the kind of church Christ taught us to have.Whats great about the cbc leaders is that they make people want to be this kind of person, but the people have to believe in it. And Im not imposing my experiences on them.I might have high expectations ,but the standards of this world have dropped do far that I feel like they need to be raised . I wish people treated church more like a family and less like an nba team where, as long as everything is going their way they will stay,but if something happens they dont like ,they go to the next team instead of trying to resolve it.


1/28/2006 06:41:00 PM  
Blogger JiminyCricket81 said...


You have not addressed what I said.

I assumed that your experience was good because of the way that you're describing it and because of the faith you put into the leadership (and yes, you ARE putting your faith in them..."the leadership makes people want to be...." was your line). Your experience DOES NOT negate mine or anyone else's. What is happening and has happened there doesn't work for people who don't fit the mold. That's just the way it is, and I'm not even saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that in order to be honest, both you and they need to face up to that.

It's not that I or anyone else here needs you or CBC to validate our experiences. It's just that your refusal to acknowledge those experiences drives a wedge that can't be avoided or ignored, and you've chosen that. You can't explain it away or say it's just the fault of the people who couldn't cope. If you do, you are not practicing the spirit of the Christ you preach....I'm telling you, it's not what my Jesus would do.

1/28/2006 07:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the aforementioned anonymous comment....I think you finally got it! It is all about image. Upgrade yourself and now you can effectively look down upon others! After all, that's better than having it the other way around.

1/28/2006 10:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as CBC and an individual who is in "disagreement" with leadership, or who has been hurt by the system....there is exactly one as they tell you to, or go away...the little kingdom hears no other drum but the one they pound.

1/28/2006 10:12:00 PM  
Anonymous jonah said...

WWJD, Unfortunately, in many cases, you can have a church filled with faithful, devout people and yet that's not enough to off-set a leader who will not admit that he is, indeed, human like everyone else. While my husband was a student at PBC he was instructed that if he were to ever find himself in leadership, it would not be advisable to make friends with the people in the congregation but only with others in leadership. Ew. This is why we adore our church where we can hang out with our (flawed, human) pastors and recognize together that we are all just sinners in desperate need of a Savior!

1/29/2006 02:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said-

"What Im saying is that churches have humans that are leaders and that means your going to have imperfection".

So much for the whole, "Holy Spirit" annointing the leaders.

Everytime a church harms people they say it is just human imperfection.

When the church wants to make rules and "interpret" Scripture they suddenly become more than just human.

This type of system only encourages abuse and I think that it is one of the reasons this blog exists.

In my opinion, the traditional church set-up (CBC)is outdated, hateful, and completely useless. The only reason it still exists is because people want to FEEL like they are pleasing god.

It's quite funny when you step outside the box and watch these SUV driving, haircut conforming, Old Navy wearing, "christians". Most of them have not ever made an actual decision for themselves.

P.S. I find it curious that the military and the church both like to use the word INDOCTRINATION.
Both these organisations tend to control alot of power and they both tend to be very ignorant of any other alternatives to the worlds problems accept good ole' WAR.

1/30/2006 12:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Education teaches that skepticism is always appropriate. Indoctrination forbids inappropriate examinations.
In theology, infallibility refers to a teaching that is guaranteed to be free from error.
Christian churches differ in their beliefs about infallibility. Some churches deny that infallibility exists. Others assert that certain categories of teaching are infallible. Some people just don't want to think for themselves.

1/30/2006 12:24:00 AM  
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Blogger Dan said...

The "Have Patience" song you refer to is off the Music Machine.

Go to this link to check it out.

My parents had it for me and my siblings on 8 track! LOL

4/26/2008 10:22:00 AM  

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